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Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 12th, 2015, 7:52 pm
by CaptainMauin
Tom wrote:Hey guys,

Sorry for the late reply here. I agree that implementing legendary markers for stats in character profiles is a necessity. I've tried doing it in the past, but I found it difficult to implement a nice user interface to allow character creators to edit the legendary number for each skill. I think that, at this point, it would just be best to implement the feature in the simplest way possible so that at least it's there for people to use. Time hasn't been on my side, so I've been delaying to get around to this, but I'll try to get around to it in the next month. If you notice that I'm non-responsive on the issue after some time, though, feel free to remind me. :)

Thanks, Tom.

Couldn't you just add another check box for legendary skills, and then add another text box under it where we could list which skills have been reset and how many times? Similar to how the exploits one works. That might need a third star, though, so we can tell at a glance if a character has had skills reset. Red is illegitimate, purple is exploits... I don't know what color skill resets might use. Blue?

Just an idea. I don't know how this stuff works, so feel free to ignore it.

Dyhart wrote:A level 81 with all skills at 100 will have a lower score than a level 155 with all skills at 100, and that's where you get your points from.

Also, going back to this for a moment (sorry). I've noticed this is true, even within my own characters.
Arandis (level 136; score of 1179) has a much higher score than Kas'Lei (level 81; score of 938) despite the fact that Kas'Lei has actually done more. There does seem to be a bias towards level when calculating the score. Now that we can level indefinitely, I don't think that's a good thing. Characters like Kas'Lei can do quest after quest and more, but they will likely never catch up to characters that have used the skill reset. I sort of feel two different ways about that.

I don't want to downplay the effort it takes to legitimately reach a high level (heck, even doing that with exploits was a chore when I did it with Arandis). Keeping that in mind, I feel like level shouldn't be counted as much, but all the misc stats that might get you there should influence the score a bit more. Doing something like that might level the playing field a bit more for those of us who don't want to use the skill reset.

On the other hand, changing how the score is calculated might cause more issues than it solves. If legendary skills were implemented in a way like exploits, then something as simple (probably not that simple, honestly) as being able to filter those characters out in the leaderboards would give a more accurate representation of older characters or those who just won't use the skill reset.

I don't mean to be a pain. That's just my thoughts on the legendary skills issue.
I know you don't have much time (if any at all) to work on this. I think, at this point, anything would be appreciated.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 17th, 2015, 2:50 am
by HaxAras
I didn't even realize this was my thread when I clicked on it. Somebody in one of the first 2 posts mentioned getting a Red mark. I did as well. I have screenshots showing my skills have been legendary reset. I just too to increasing them into the hundreds. (300 + for archers for example)

I don't really care if any random jag believes my char is legit or not but I don't want it marked as ill-legit and taken off the leader-boards if it's not true.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 19th, 2015, 3:41 pm
by CaptainMauin
Then don't have your skills at 300+. Simple as that. Unless you're counting enchantments (which you shouldn't. This is about the characters, not who has the better gear), skills can't go above 100 in the vanilla game. Setting skills higher than that is a misrepresentation of your actual stats that could very well result in a higher score than deserved.

I don't know what others do when rating characters illegitimate, but I look for stats that are out of place, grossly exaggerated, or just plain wrong. Keeping in mind the limitations of the vanilla game. If it's a PC character, I check for mods. At that point, some knowledge of the used mods is necessary (I also remember that, in some cases, not every mod listed has been used. I know I just list my full load order because I never know exactly which mods I'm going to use). I give the character a rating only when everything is considered. Inflating the level of a skill above the vanilla cap of 100 is what I consider an exaggeration.

As mentioned before (by Tom himself in the second post), the best way to show legendary skills is to make a note in either your character biography or in your journal detailing which skills have been reset and how many times. Until legendary skills can be implemented, making note in the biography or the journal is the most fair (least unbalanced) way of showing what has been done.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 20th, 2015, 9:31 pm
by Tom
So I have a little surprise for everyone — I had some extra time today, so I decided to finally go ahead and implement legendary stats for Skyrim characters! :)

If you checkout your characters' profiles, you'll see that when you go to edit a profile, a new input field will be available next to the skill level input field for each skill, with a little times sign next to it. To specify the number of times you have applied the legendary reset on a particular skill, just place the number in that box and click Save. You'll then notice a little gold badge next to the skill's name displaying the number of times it has been made legendary!

I've also implemented legendary resetting of skills into the calculation of characters' scores. The way it's implemented now, every time you make a skill legendary (i.e., reset it), the skill's level is viewed by the score calculator as equaling:

weighted skill level = 100 × (# of times reset) + 1.15 × (# of times reset) × (current skill level)

In this way, for example, if you legendary-reset a skill for the second time and its current skill level is now at 17, it would be viewed by the calculator as equaling 200 + (1.15 × 2 × 17) = 239 as opposed to simply 217 if greater weights weren't rewarded for making a skill legendary one or more times. Also, you can see from the second term in the sum that, the more times you make a skill legendary, the more of a boost you get to the actual current value for that skill.

I know that I haven't made the full calculation of character score public yet, but I intend to do so in the near future so that everyone can get a better understanding of how it's calculated and what goes into it. For now, though, I think this suffices.

Please let me know what you guys think of the new feature!

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 20th, 2015, 10:41 pm
by CaptainMauin
It's nice to have support for the legendary skills, but now I really do think the score calculation needs some rebalancing. I've updated the two characters I have who have used the skill reset and both of their scores shot up. Vulom from around the 900s to the low 1000s and Arandis from the 1100s up above 1400. Kas'Lei, though, has had her score drop from the low 900s to 880.

I have the same concern as I did in an earlier post: characters who don't use the skill resets are being left in the dust by those who do. It seems as though most of the points are coming from the level/skills of a character. Having it set up like that, in a way, downplays the actual work that goes into making a character (whether they be level 81 or level 500 or whatever). A level 81 can work their back end off and never catch up to a character that has reset skills multiple times, even if they have actually done more than the higher leveled character.

I feel like I'm going to have to start resetting skills every time I get one to 100 just to keep up with the other characters. That's really not something I'm fond of doing. It was a pain resetting Arandis' alchemy skill 31 times, even though I was using exploits (fortify restoration loop). Doing that took around two or three hours... Two or three very long and dull hours. I admit I am half considering resetting Kas'Lei's skills once she is done Dragonborn, but I'd rather get to my other characters. I can't do that until Kas'Lei is complete because there is one mod I want to get rid of... And I'd like to finish my other characters so that I can remove multiple mods and update others. Ugh. At the rate I'm going, I might have a new PC before that happens.

Eh. I'd like to hear what others have to say about the score calculation, but very few people use the forums here. Myself included in that... I only started posting when I stopped to consider the issue of having skills above 100.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 22nd, 2015, 4:35 am
by HaxAras
Tom wrote:So I have a little surprise for everyone — I had some extra time today, so I decided to finally go ahead and implement legendary stats for Skyrim characters! :)

Please let me know what you guys think of the new feature!

Well, I'd like to express how grateful I am for starters. I'm about to turn on Skyrim so I can update my character HaxAras Royal. As for leaderboards and all that, I like my leaderboard position. I'd like to get a character on the first page. My char. HaxAras Royal probably stands the best chance but I made a mess of my world and it's not the most important thing to me. Keeping my stats updated as accurate as possible is.

Wow! I just finished updating my stats. I dropped 3-4 spots I think but I don't care about that. It really makes me want to pick this char back up.

I lost some unique items, some never spawned. I can't live in the house I like, can't make my wife a vampire or use my favorite companion Teldryn Sero :( :( :( . I made him join the Blades and due to a glitch, he no longer follows you. Despite that, as incredibly sad as it is that I can't explore Solstheim with him, I still haven't done the quests there but did every single quest I came across in Skyrim. That also leaves me with a lot less to do and is another reason I stopped playing.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 22nd, 2015, 7:33 am
by CaptainMauin
You could have Kas'Lei. I haven't got a clue what's going on with her at the moment, but I keep getting random constant CTDs in places where there was no CTD before. Apparently the idea of resetting her skills isn't going to happen, so she's going to stay at level 81 until her "death" in a day or two. Of the other two PC characters, Narji is the better choice. She'd need to have her combat skills reset constantly to reach a higher level; I don't plan on using any skills not related to her build. Heart-Of-The-Marsh would probably be in the same situation.

I'd reset Arandis again, but there are definitely skills that I don't want to level even a second time... Mainly lockpicking and pickpocket. Pickpocket is tedious and lockpicking kept getting frozen every few levels (I wouldn't get experience for picking locks until another skill increased enough to trigger a level up). Her combat skills would work. Crafting, too. It'd at least give me a reason to keep collecting supplies instead of just picking things up and never using them.

Re: Will there ever be legendary reset stats on the characters?

PostPosted: April 22nd, 2015, 2:55 pm
by Dyhart
I didn't realize there post on this topic have grown so I feel like I should make another comment.

The red marks were due to having stats that can't exist in the game. I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt that they didn't sell potions worth 1,000,000 from using alchemy gear that has +800,000 on it. But stats higher than 100 is incorrect. Now that stats can be legendary, We should stop seeing this and if not, I suggest making a cap on the stats you are allowed to save your character with.