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Revision of the Character Score System

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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby josjie » February 5th, 2010, 9:53 pm

Xavier wrote:Wow, thanks for your contribution, josjie. Really good ideas and thoughts. This new score system will be much better.


Thanks :oops:! This formula isn't perfect though, I'm still not sure about some parts of it (level, quests completed, multipliers...).
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 5th, 2010, 10:07 pm

I just have a few questions about the formula. I think that the Scores will get too big and too far apart if we do not have some division going on at least twice or so in different parts of the formula. I'm thinking we should average the minor and major skills in the equation you posted, as well as the secondary statistics. Also, I don't think that Level should be counted as highly as it is (multiplying it by 4).

Here is my modification of your formula, still not completed though:

Primary stats
Health, Magicka, Fatigue, Level, <attributes>, <major skills>, <minor skills>

(Health + Magicka + Fatigue)/3 = X1
<sum of all attributes>/8 + <sum of all skills>/21 = X2

X1 + X2 + Level*2 = X3

Secondary stats
1. Quests completed (A)
2. Creatures killed (B)
3. People killed (C)
4. Places found (D)
5. Oblivion gates shut (E)

(A + B*3 + C*3 + D*2 + E)/5 = X4

Character score
X3 + X4 = Score

Just a rough modification, but what do you think about that sort of approach?
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby josjie » February 6th, 2010, 6:43 pm

Tom wrote:I just have a few questions about the formula. I think that the Scores will get too big and too far apart if we do not have some division going on at least twice or so in different parts of the formula. I'm thinking we should average the minor and major skills in the equation you posted, as well as the secondary statistics. Also, I don't think that Level should be counted as highly as it is (multiplying it by 4).

Here is my modification of your formula, still not completed though:

Primary stats
Health, Magicka, Fatigue, Level, <attributes>, <major skills>, <minor skills>

(Health + Magicka + Fatigue)/3 = X1
<sum of all attributes>/8 + <sum of all skills>/21 = X2

X1 + X2 + Level*2 = X3

Secondary stats
1. Quests completed (A)
2. Creatures killed (B)
3. People killed (C)
4. Places found (D)
5. Oblivion gates shut (E)

(A + B*3 + C*3 + D*2 + E)/5 = X4

Character score
X3 + X4 = Score

Just a rough modification, but what do you think about that sort of approach?


100% agreed :).

Now you can simply kill some more enemies at level 25 to increase your score (so you don't have to be level 50 if you want to be #1 overall rank).
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 6th, 2010, 7:51 pm

josjie wrote:Now you can simply kill some more enemies at level 25 to increase your score (so you don't have to be level 50 if you want to be #1 overall rank).

I didn't think about that. Do you think we should change it back to Level*4 or Level*3, or is level 25 fine for someone to be #1 overall?
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby josjie » February 7th, 2010, 7:16 am

Tom wrote:
josjie wrote:Now you can simply kill some more enemies at level 25 to increase your score (so you don't have to be level 50 if you want to be #1 overall rank).

I didn't think about that. Do you think we should change it back to Level*4 or Level*3, or is level 25 fine for someone to be #1 overall?


A level 50 character has (25*2=50) 50 more points than a lvl 25 character.

All you need to do as a lvl 25 character is kill (50*5=250) 250/3=83 enemies.

So I think we should keep it like this.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby whoman69 » February 7th, 2010, 3:28 pm

A level 50 character vs a level 25 character is going to have a lot more going on so its very doubtful they would be beaten by a level 25. Their stats would be higher, have completed more quests (although without mods they probably ran out of quests), killed more people and creatures, found more places and shut more gates. The fact that its much harder to increase in level as you go along means that that difference should be substantial. I find that its very unlikely that a level 25 character would be #1. I'm glad that the new system takes out many of the things that really don't matter to the overall game. Does how many items one has stolen or murders committed really have anything to do with advancing the game? There are people who role play not to do those things.

I think there should be bonuses for completing certain tasks such as being head of a guild, becoming madgod or champion of cyrodil should still play a part. You could give partial credit for steps along the way say a tenth of the bonus for being an apprentice, up to half for the step below the guild master. Not as much should be given to the Arena champion since there are no real quests to complete it and can be done easily within a half hour. To a lesser extent things like knights of the White Stallion or Order of the Virtuous Blood, maybe a little more for Knights of the Thorn since that is more difficult to get. I say this knowing it would hurt my scores since my characters role play which guilds they will join.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby josjie » February 7th, 2010, 10:38 pm

whoman69 wrote:A level 50 character vs a level 25 character is going to have a lot more going on so its very doubtful they would be beaten by a level 25. Their stats would be higher, have completed more quests (although without mods they probably ran out of quests), killed more people and creatures, found more places and shut more gates. The fact that its much harder to increase in level as you go along means that that difference should be substantial. I find that its very unlikely that a level 25 character would be #1. I'm glad that the new system takes out many of the things that really don't matter to the overall game. Does how many items one has stolen or murders committed really have anything to do with advancing the game? There are people who role play not to do those things.

I think there should be bonuses for completing certain tasks such as being head of a guild, becoming madgod or champion of cyrodil should still play a part. You could give partial credit for steps along the way say a tenth of the bonus for being an apprentice, up to half for the step below the guild master. Not as much should be given to the Arena champion since there are no real quests to complete it and can be done easily within a half hour. To a lesser extent things like knights of the White Stallion or Order of the Virtuous Blood, maybe a little more for Knights of the Thorn since that is more difficult to get. I say this knowing it would hurt my scores since my characters role play which guilds they will join.


Some people stop levelling when they're level 25-35 ;). If you use efficient levelling (+5+5+5) it is possible to maximize all your attributes by then.
So most people who plan ahead and really understand the levelling system of Oblivion are level 25-35. So a lvl 50 character isn't necessarily better than a lvl 25 character. In fact, if you compare them to the enemies they'll encounter in-game the lvl 25 character has more survivability and has an easier time killing enemies.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 8th, 2010, 10:40 pm

whoman69 wrote:I think there should be bonuses for completing certain tasks such as being head of a guild, becoming madgod or champion of cyrodil should still play a part. You could give partial credit for steps along the way say a tenth of the bonus for being an apprentice, up to half for the step below the guild master. Not as much should be given to the Arena champion since there are no real quests to complete it and can be done easily within a half hour. To a lesser extent things like knights of the White Stallion or Order of the Virtuous Blood, maybe a little more for Knights of the Thorn since that is more difficult to get. I say this knowing it would hurt my scores since my characters role play which guilds they will join.

I can understand where you are coming from. If we were to include bonuses for being the head of a guild or Champion of Cyrodiil, for example, how much would these bonuses be, and how would you suggest we include them in the overall Score calculation? I like your idea, I just want to see what you (and possibly others) think about how such bonuses would be calculated.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby whoman69 » February 12th, 2010, 2:20 am

josjie wrote:Some people stop levelling when they're level 25-35 ;). If you use efficient levelling (+5+5+5) it is possible to maximize all your attributes by then.
So most people who plan ahead and really understand the levelling system of Oblivion are level 25-35. So a lvl 50 character isn't necessarily better than a lvl 25 character. In fact, if you compare them to the enemies they'll encounter in-game the lvl 25 character has more survivability and has an easier time killing enemies.


That is only because a level 50 character is fighting tougher monsters. A level 50 character would have a much easier time fighting the monsters the level 25 character is.

One trait of efficient levelling is that you are controlling the skill increases for each level, or at least trying to. While their attributes may have maxxed out their skills perhaps haven't. Skills are actually more of a difference in combat than attributes are. You are also forgetting the possibility that the level 50 character may have efficiently levelled. If he maxxed out his endurance by level 25 then at level 50 his health is 250 points higher, even more if you have
[show] Spoiler:
KOTN and Mara's Blessing obtained by praying at Sir Casimir's tomb.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby whoman69 » February 12th, 2010, 3:27 am

Tom wrote:I can understand where you are coming from. If we were to include bonuses for being the head of a guild or Champion of Cyrodiil, for example, how much would these bonuses be, and how would you suggest we include them in the overall Score calculation? I like your idea, I just want to see what you (and possibly others) think about how such bonuses would be calculated.


I would say an add on at the end so make it an X5 layer. Since I haven't really done a study to find out how the points would look I can't really give specific numbers. It would have to be weighted and we would have to discuss how much weight to give to each accomplishment.

Of the current factions that are listed I think Blackwood Company and Mythic Dawn should be removed. You are not a part of these factions after you have completed those missions. I don't think Blades should count either for reasons which I will explain later. Nine Divines is duplicated under Knights of the Nine so should have no bearing either.

The minor factions Knights of the Thorn, Knights of the White Stallion, and Order of Virtuous Blood should count about the same, although if I had to weight them Knights of the Thorn is harder to achieve. Each should have no more weight than being say a jouneyman in the guilds.

As I stated earlier I don't think the Grand Champion of the Arena should not weight as much as the other major guilds. The advantages for completing this guild are mostly monetary as well as the bump in Fame which we all agree should not count for this points system. I would say this guild should be given about half the weight of the other major guilds.

There is a difference in the number of stages in each of the guilds, but that should not create too much of difference since the step below guild head is only worth half as much as being the guild leader.

That leaves the major quests of KOTN, Shivering Isles and the main quest. I believe each of these should weight more than the major guilds, KOTN perhaps only slightly more. Champion of Cyrodil should outweigh everything. It is the main quest of the game afterall. We could even create partial points for finishing portions of the main quest say starting with 'Deliver the Amulet' and including completion of 'Weynon Priory' 'Dagon Shrine' 'Blood of the Daedra' 'Miscarand or Blood of the Divines' 'Great Gate' and finally 'Paradise'.
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