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Revision of the Character Score System

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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 12th, 2010, 7:18 am

whoman69 wrote:We could even create partial points for finishing portions of the main quest say starting with 'Deliver the Amulet' and including completion of 'Weynon Priory' 'Dagon Shrine' 'Blood of the Daedra' 'Miscarand or Blood of the Divines' 'Great Gate' and finally 'Paradise'.

The only problem with that idea is that The Elder Stats only stores a character's rank in each guild, and not which quests they have completed for each guild. Therefore, this part would be somewhat immeasurable.

So, from what you're saying, you would like to see something like this:
X = a number to be defined later

  • Knights of the White Stallion = .3*X
  • Order of Virtuous Blood = .3*X
  • Knights of the Thorn = .4*X
  • Grand Champion of the Arena = .5*X
  • Master Thief (Thieves Guild) = .6*X
  • Champion (Fighters Guild) = .6*X
  • Master-Wizard (Mages Guild) = .6*X
  • Speaker (Dark Brotherhood) = .6*X
  • Gray Fox (Thieves Guild) = 1*X
  • Master (Fighters Guild) = 1*X
  • Arch-Mage (Mages Guild) = 1*X
  • Listener (Dark Brotherhood) = 1*X
Just a rough idea, and X could be some constant value that is multiplied by the numbers listed above, depending on in which guild the character is a leader/almost-leader. Then, each value multiplied by X can be added up and averaged, then added onto the character's score. Just laying some groundwork. Feel free to critique this whole concept however you'd like.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Kestral » February 13th, 2010, 7:06 am

Tom, do you think you should be making most of the formula/algorithm public? If someone knows the ins and outs, one can easily create a legitimate looking character that in fact is not real.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 14th, 2010, 3:23 am

Kestral wrote:Tom, do you think you should be making most of the formula/algorithm public? If someone knows the ins and outs, one can easily create a legitimate looking character that in fact is not real.

That's a good point. When the new Score formula is employed on the website, we will not provide the formula for its calculation (as we do now). Also, I may hide this topic just to be safe. I'm planning on implementing a formula very soon and seeing how it goes. If it goes well, then we will move on with it. If not, we can always make improvements.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby whoman69 » February 15th, 2010, 8:57 pm

Tom wrote:The only problem with that idea is that The Elder Stats only stores a character's rank in each guild, and not which quests they have completed for each guild. Therefore, this part would be somewhat immeasurable.

So, from what you're saying, you would like to see something like this:
X = a number to be defined later

  • Knights of the White Stallion = .3*X
  • Order of Virtuous Blood = .3*X
  • Knights of the Thorn = .4*X
  • Grand Champion of the Arena = .5*X
  • Master Thief (Thieves Guild) = .6*X
  • Champion (Fighters Guild) = .6*X
  • Master-Wizard (Mages Guild) = .6*X
  • Speaker (Dark Brotherhood) = .6*X
  • Gray Fox (Thieves Guild) = 1*X
  • Master (Fighters Guild) = 1*X
  • Arch-Mage (Mages Guild) = 1*X
  • Listener (Dark Brotherhood) = 1*X
Just a rough idea, and X could be some constant value that is multiplied by the numbers listed above, depending on in which guild the character is a leader/almost-leader. Then, each value multiplied by X can be added up and averaged, then added onto the character's score. Just laying some groundwork. Feel free to critique this whole concept however you'd like.


The fix for the ranks for the main quest would be to add new ranks under Champion of Cyrodil that show completion of those quests. I would put the lesser guilds at maybe .1*x or .2*x which is about where I would put the journeyman ranks for the main guilds. I would have the next to the highest level in each guild at .5*x.

Using these numbers then completion of KOTN would be at 1.1*x while Shivering would be 1.2*x and Champion of Cyrodil 1.5*x.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Sithis » February 16th, 2010, 3:55 am

Wow...I can't believe that my small contribution created such a development.

As far as my equipment monetary value idea went, I can only describe it like this.

Equipment makes your character more powerful, right?

Obviously using Umbra(which is worth a lot of septims -like over 9000 I think) as your weapon should boost the score of a character compared to somebody who owns a rusty iron shortsword (which is practically worthless...like less than 10).
But I don't know how we would go about integrating this into the equation. I mean, how would you be able to take equipment into account with the current layout for character pages? Plus, you would also have to take magical enchantments into account...tough stuff.

What I proposed was a general idea...an equation. Thank you guys for expanding on it.

Oh, and if you guys need any additions to the equation (like integrals, derivatives, limits...I'm a calc student), feel free to pm me.

I always thought that this was the way that the scoring system should have been.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Kestral » February 17th, 2010, 4:09 am

The problem here is that- unless if the ES can access a player's save -there is no way of knowing which specific quest is completed or what is your current total armor rating.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby josjie » February 17th, 2010, 7:04 pm

I don't think that we should include equipment. The weapons/armor that you use depend on your build so a mage is at an disadvantage here ;).

Same for factions. Yes you can add them to the score formula but is that really necessary? I think "Quests completed" is more than enough. There are people out there that are role-playing and only join the "good" guilds (for example).

So I think we should keep it simple and stick to this formula:

Primary stats
Health, Magicka, Fatigue, Level, <attributes>, <major skills>, <minor skills>

(Health + Magicka + Fatigue)/3 = X1
<sum of all attributes>/8 + <sum of all skills>/21 = X2

X1 + X2 + Level*2 = X3

Secondary stats
1. Quests completed (A)
2. Creatures killed (B)
3. People killed (C)
4. Places found (D)
5. Oblivion gates shut (E)

(A + B*3 + C*3 + D*2 + E)/5 = X4

Character score
X3 + X4 = Score
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Tom » February 17th, 2010, 8:51 pm

josjie wrote:So I think we should keep it simple and stick to this formula:

Primary stats
Health, Magicka, Fatigue, Level, <attributes>, <major skills>, <minor skills>

(Health + Magicka + Fatigue)/3 = X1
<sum of all attributes>/8 + <sum of all skills>/21 = X2

X1 + X2 + Level*2 = X3

Secondary stats
1. Quests completed (A)
2. Creatures killed (B)
3. People killed (C)
4. Places found (D)
5. Oblivion gates shut (E)

(A + B*3 + C*3 + D*2 + E)/5 = X4

Character score
X3 + X4 = Score

I'm leaning more toward that, as well. We do have to keep in mind the RPers out there, and this formula seems to sum up some of the most important statistics that good characters should be worried about. Also, this doesn't need to be extremely complicated. Of course, we want it to be a good scoring system, but anything will be better than the current Score system that is in place now. The reason that the current Score system is so horribly unbalanced is because I devised its calculation in a rush to release the website back in February 2009. I'm glad we're revisiting this, though, and I would like to have a new Score formula in place with every character's Score recalculated by the end of this weekend.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Sithis » February 18th, 2010, 9:21 am

Lol...I forgot about the mages' theory on equipment. True enough, oust the equipment idea.

I agree that the last formula should be used.
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Re: Revision of the Character Score System

Postby Grayfox » February 23rd, 2010, 4:28 am

Kestral.

You can't access saves on game consoles. I think people may lie, but if they do, that's their problem, and they know they are lying.

Sometimes, the possibility is just there...
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