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Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

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Who would win?

Gallowglasses
3
43%
Ninjas
4
57%
 
Total votes : 7

Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby Ashk. Ashina Zelaku » July 29th, 2009, 12:10 am

If you want, feel free to read the information below. If you don't, just vote anyway ;)

Ninjas:

Advantages:

- Cheap to recruit and would have their own armour
- Had a wide variety of weapons and techniques
- Often worked for money or close family ties; no diplomacy required
- A rather bizarre depiction of them is famous across the Western world (and probably the Japanese one, but I wouldn't bet on it)
- Stealthy, useful for spying, sabotage, and assassination

Disadvantages:

- Their armour, if they had any, was of bad quality, and with most of them their experience reflected their price
- Weapons were impractical and the techniques required more thought than a fleeing assassin would have given
- You'd better have more money than your opponent
- There is no record of their accomplishments
- It is impossible for them to be stealthy in the locations where they do most of their work

Gallowglasses:

Advantages:

- Trained from a young age and experienced through battle; had their own armour and weapons
- Many weapons suitable for the battlefield, including javelins, axes, claymores, daggers, and bows
- Always worked for supplies rather than money
- Almost entirely unheard of despite their legacy; will be underestimated by their ninja opponents
- Not that stealthy, but trained in wrestling and boxing, and to use their minds rather than fight as a unit

Disadvantages:

- Would often go to schools run by professionals for their training, would have tactics similar to those of others
- Often preferred one weapon; their kerns, responsible for their weapons, may not be available to give them a new one on the battlefield
- They had two kerns to feed. They'd want a lot of resources, especially if they were being paid to fight their own kinsmen, in which case they could charge ridiculous prices
- Who are they? What? No reputation.
- Not that stealthy
The Empire is a confidence trick. Do you, the famed warrior races of Tamriel, having won international renown for your fighting prowess, consider yourselves and your abilities inferior to those of money-grabbing merchants and diplomats in armour?
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby The Ninja » July 29th, 2009, 8:52 pm

Wow. Downplay ninjas much?

Here let me fix this for you:

Ninjas:

Advantages:

- Had a wide and deadly variety of weapons and techniques
- Were trained from birth to be experts
- Were honor bound (Meaning they were a respectable adversary)
- Stealthy, useful for spying, sabotage, and assassination
- Were ingeneous and creative, thinking on their feet
- Were quick and silent, great at dodging blows
- Their armour, if they had any (leather pads and such), was not needed, for their technique and speed was unmatched by others

Disadvantages:

- Not good at taking on many opponents (5 is sort of a limit)

- Were honor bound (Meaning they would refuse jobs if they were against their beliefs)

There, *dusts off hands* all better!

Notice how I don't downplay Gallowglasses? I'm not saying they are bad, just that ninjas are GOOD!
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby Ashk. Ashina Zelaku » July 30th, 2009, 6:21 pm

Did I mention that gallowglasses had sub-machine guns? ;)
The Empire is a confidence trick. Do you, the famed warrior races of Tamriel, having won international renown for your fighting prowess, consider yourselves and your abilities inferior to those of money-grabbing merchants and diplomats in armour?
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby The Ninja » July 30th, 2009, 8:03 pm

Hah! lol

But what use is a submachine gun when you are dead before you can use it? ;)

I appreciate the fact that this isn't anywhere close to a flaming discussion between you and I. They smilies you have posted makes this known.
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby Kestral » July 31st, 2009, 6:03 pm

The Ninja wrote:Hah! lol

But what use is a submachine gun when you are dead before you can use it? ;)

I appreciate the fact that this isn't anywhere close to a flaming discussion between you and I. They smilies you have posted makes this known.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78 ... sninja.jpg
Replace the shotgun with "automatic sub-machine gun" and you have the same situation.

Ninjas are not faster than bullets, nor can evade them.
Ninjas cannot dodge the enemy with a sub-machine gun, even with all the fanciest of parlor tricks.
'Also: Pulling a trigger takes less time than activating and dropping a smoke bomb'
'Then shotgun guy would turn around.
Or hear the ninja.
Or he'd be shooting randomly, and hit the ninja! (what?)'
Replace 'shotgun' with 'sub automatic-machine gun'.

This is directly from a previous argument, which I'm copied the quotes from word for word.

Edit:
Let's look at the episode of Deadliest Warrior, Spartan vs Ninja.

The ninja lost, big time. In all the simulations they ran, their 'deadly weapons' got the least kills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_ ... mulation_3

It took a scythe, which isn't very much of a ninja weapon, to get more kills.

Even though it was against a totally different person, it still fits.
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby The Ninja » July 31st, 2009, 6:47 pm

Kestral wrote:http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/shotgunvsninja.jpg
Replace the shotgun with "automatic sub-machine gun" and you have the same situation.


The situation wouldn't start! The ninja is not supposed to take on someone straight on! The word Assassin? He would either cause a distraction or not (depending on the situation) then strike the target from the shadows. Ranged or not? I don't know. It all depends. So the shotgun dude is just sitting around when all of a sudden there is a funny feeling... As if he's being watched. But a sharp pain is sent through his back and, before everything goes black, he sees a blade sticking out of his thoracic cavity. That's the way a ninja kills, not straight on as the picture supposes.

Kestral wrote:Ninjas are not faster than bullets, nor can evade them.


True.

Kestral wrote:Ninjas cannot dodge the enemy with a sub-machine gun, even with all the fanciest of parlor tricks.


False. Who said that the guy with the gun has good marksmanship? The ninja could strike up some tense conversation (example: "Who is you leader? Why are you guarding this particular place in the middle of the night?" [of course, most guards are not the sharpest in wit ;) ]) to make the guy losen up just a bit then lung forward into a kneel to be UNDER the bullets that would come out of the barrel. He grabs the gun to push it away, and stabs the gun dude. That is, IF that situation were ever to occur
Kestral wrote:'Also: Pulling a trigger takes less time than activating and dropping a smoke bomb'


True

Kestral wrote:'Then shotgun guy would turn around.
Or hear the ninja.


Nope. A ninja is sure to be as quite as a shadow. And the guy would probably be dead right as he (if he ever did) sense the presence of a ninja.

Kestral wrote:Or he'd be shooting randomly, and hit the ninja! (what?)'
Replace 'shotgun' with 'sub automatic-machine gun'.


Why would he be shooting at something he didn't see, hear, feel, or sense? He'd run out of ammunition before he hit the ninja.

Kestral wrote:This is directly from a previous argument, which I'm copied the quotes from word for word.

Edit:
Let's look at the episode of Deadliest Warrior, Spartan vs Ninja.

The ninja lost, big time. In all the simulations they ran, their 'deadly weapons' got the least kills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_ ... mulation_3

It took a scythe, which isn't very much of a ninja weapon, to get more kills.

Even though it was against a totally different person, it still fits.


Okay, there are a few major errors in that video. First of all, the ninja let out a yell before he stabbed the spartan. A real ninja wouldn't EVER do that. That would have been an instant kill, the way a ninja operates. Second, the Black Egg to the spartans face would have blinded him forever, and while he was still dazed, a REAL ninja would have crept around him and stabbed him in the back. Thirdly! The ninja wouldn't have done a roll into plain sight to shoot his blowgun! He would have shot it from cover and in hiding. There are a few more but I don't want to talk about that hidious video any longer.
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby Kestral » August 1st, 2009, 3:48 am

The Ninja wrote:
Kestral wrote:http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/shotgunvsninja.jpg
Replace the shotgun with "automatic sub-machine gun" and you have the same situation.


The situation wouldn't start! The ninja is not supposed to take on someone straight on! The word Assassin? He would either cause a distraction or not (depending on the situation) then strike the target from the shadows. Ranged or not? I don't know. It all depends. So the shotgun dude is just sitting around when all of a sudden there is a funny feeling... As if he's being watched. But a sharp pain is sent through his back and, before everything goes black, he sees a blade sticking out of his thoracic cavity. That's the way a ninja kills, not straight on as the picture supposes.

It doesn't has to be taken literally, the fact is that the ninja would lose. THEY ARE NOT ALL-POWERFUL. THEY ARE NOT ALL SNEAKY. THEY AR NOT THE EXAGGERATED MEN IN BLACK PANTS YOU SAY. And that is that. No one can be that sneaky, no real assassin has ever even tried to be sneaky to kill someone. They'd:
A) Outright kill them. Ex, Altair from Assassin's Creed, or just the hashishin in general, who performed public executions. Or Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK shootings, or John Wilkes Booth and Lincoln.
B) Conspire. Clause Von Staufenberg and Project Valkyrie against Hitler. These include posioning.
You just cannot be that sneaky, you have no proof, no historical evidence, or tact to anything you've said anywhere to such topic. Show me proof without saying "MY UNCLE [add anything after uncle]".

The Ninja wrote:
Kestral wrote:Ninjas cannot dodge the enemy with a sub-machine gun, even with all the fanciest of parlor tricks.


False. Who said that the guy with the gun has good marksmanship? The ninja could strike up some tense conversation (example: "Who is you leader? Why are you guarding this particular place in the middle of the night?" [of course, most guards are not the sharpest in wit ;) ]) to make the guy losen up just a bit then lung forward into a kneel to be UNDER the bullets that would come out of the barrel. He grabs the gun to push it away, and stabs the gun dude. That is, IF that situation were ever to occur

I never said that now, did I? And no, he would not talk, and no, he would not take anything from a man in a vigilanty costume who obviously came through the open window.

The Ninja wrote:
Kestral wrote:'Then shotgun guy would turn around.
Or hear the ninja.


Nope. A ninja is sure to be as quite as a shadow. And the guy would probably be dead right as he (if he ever did) sense the presence of a ninja.

PROOF. SHOW ME PROOF. YOU ARE NOT SHOWING PROOF. You are not showing any historical evidence of any ninja work, ever. You are just using exaggerated perceptions.

The Ninja wrote:
Kestral wrote:Or he'd be shooting randomly, and hit the ninja! (what?)'
Replace 'shotgun' with 'sub automatic-machine gun'.


Why would he be shooting at something he didn't see, hear, feel, or sense? He'd run out of ammunition before he hit the ninja.

See the above, and try to rebuttle it. Successfully. You just keep saying "They're sneaky!" over and over and over and over and over again. I cannot exaggerate how much because it just is imposasible. Every single rebuttle you've had is that. That does not work.

The Ninja wrote:
Kestral wrote:This is directly from a previous argument, which I'm copied the quotes from word for word.

Edit:
Let's look at the episode of Deadliest Warrior, Spartan vs Ninja.

The ninja lost, big time. In all the simulations they ran, their 'deadly weapons' got the least kills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_ ... mulation_3

It took a scythe, which isn't very much of a ninja weapon, to get more kills.

Even though it was against a totally different person, it still fits.


Okay, there are a few major errors in that video. First of all, the ninja let out a yell before he stabbed the spartan. A real ninja wouldn't EVER do that. That would have been an instant kill, the way a ninja operates. Second, the Black Egg to the spartans face would have blinded him forever, and while he was still dazed, a REAL ninja would have crept around him and stabbed him in the back. Thirdly! The ninja wouldn't have done a roll into plain sight to shoot his blowgun! He would have shot it from cover and in hiding. There are a few more but I don't want to talk about that hidious video any longer.

Are you a scientist? Are you a historian? Are you a martial arts expert? Have you any profession in any field depicted in the show? Have you any personal experience under a "true" ninja (your uncle doesn't cut it, if he even lives up to your statements.)? Have you any experience under a "true" Spartan? For that matter, were you even apart of the Deadliest Warrior team? Hmm? These people are professionals in their field, if you are not going to trust professionals, I guess you should make your own history books because you obviously know enough. You are just taking little tid-bits out of your imaginary sack of 'fits everything' and trying to debunk work with it.

This isn't going to go anywhere, you'll just repeat yourself, and I'll have to rebuttle everything. Until you can show the least bit of tact, I'm not reading this.
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby The Ninja » August 1st, 2009, 7:46 pm

Kestral wrote:You just cannot be that sneaky, you have no proof, no historical evidence, or tact to anything you've said anywhere to such topic. Show me proof without saying "MY UNCLE [add anything after uncle]".


Ahem... "My uncle." ;)

Kestral wrote:PROOF. SHOW ME PROOF. YOU ARE NOT SHOWING PROOF. You are not showing any historical evidence of any ninja work, ever. You are just using exaggerated perceptions.


How can I show you something that not only happened in the past, but was hidden as much as possible? The Ninjas were to NOT make a scene. So how could there be any historical evidence if it was all covered up? You know who would know how sneaky ninjas were supposed to be? Ahem... "My uncle."

Kestral wrote:I cannot exaggerate how much because it just is imposasible. Every single rebuttle you've had is that. That does not work.


It is not imposasible! Nor impossible! ;) That is the essence of Ninjas. Sneak to kill, and sneak after killing.

Kestral wrote:Are you a scientist? Are you a historian? Are you a martial arts expert? Have you any profession in any field depicted in the show? Have you any personal experience under a "true" ninja (your uncle doesn't cut it, if he even lives up to your statements.)? Have you any experience under a "true" Spartan? For that matter, were you even apart of the Deadliest Warrior team? Hmm? These people are professionals in their field, if you are not going to trust professionals, I guess you should make your own history books because you obviously know enough. You are just taking little tid-bits out of your imaginary sack of 'fits everything' and trying to debunk work with it.


Pros my muscular buttox. IF you would ever see again after a black egg attack, it would be so blurry, you just might as well be blind! No, logic can pierce the "scientists, historians, etc." thinking. I'm just saying. There were so many opertunities to kill the spartan, but they make him look invincible. Yes, the ninja can die too, but do you see the moves he's puttin' on? He dodged the spear every time, but he can't move out of the way of the charging shield!
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby garreton » May 2nd, 2010, 12:36 am

Dude, you are obsessed with ninjas. I dont doubt they are good asassins (despite the lack of evidences), but the samurais, ninjas skills have been exaggerated by histories and films. No big deal, just warriors and asassins like others.
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Re: Gallowglasses versus Ninjas

Postby The Ninja » May 4th, 2010, 4:20 am

You know what.... There are several contradictions there:

1. "Their skill as assassins isn't that great.... Just look at the lack of evidence!"

2. Ninjas were developed to kill the Samurai. Why do you think they have so many tools and weapons? Trust me.

Yes, I agree that there are misrepresentations in filming, but the REAL image of a ninja (You must have read about my "realative's" experiance on the matter.) is quite awe-inspiring.
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