What is so cool about ninjas?

[Ashk. Ashina Zelaku]

Samurai were actually specialist archers, not swordsmen, so in hand-to-hand combat I'd say that most Japanese warriors could have beaten them. I would love to see gallowglasses against the ninjas on a battlefield.

The gallowglasses were the best of the best in the western world, trained from birth with many weapons and in many martial arts. They were trained to think as themselves as part of a team, although were encouraged to make their own decisions on the battlefield, similar to the most renowned soldiers today, and they were experienced through wars across Europe that could be anything from guerrilla wars to pitched battles.

[The Ninja]

Samurai were actually specialist archers, not swordsmen, so in hand-to-hand combat I'd say that most Japanese warriors could have beaten them.

At first, yes. The Samurai were master archers, but they adopted the Samurai sword, and used the Yumi Bow as their second weapon.

[Kestral]

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1. They are good at athletics and acrobatics. (I love acrobatics, I sometimes do a flip off of my roof and quite a few more tricks, but anyway...)

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2. They have a martial art called "Ninjitsu." (If you see it in action, it is all based around speed and counters, which you don't need much stregnth to perform.)
3. They have an arsenal of tools. (Smoke bombs, black eggs [I've made some of my own ;) ], Grappling Hook [planning to get one in the mail someday...], climbing foot and hand spikes, flash bombs, poisons, and sometimes [rarely] a claw that may be used for climbing or fighting.)
4. They have an arsenal of weapons. (Ninjato [a sword similar, but shorter than a katana, for stealth purposes], world famous throwing stars, kunai knives [I have a few; they are not always used for throwing, but for spike to jam into your enemy at close combat. Similar to the style of the wristblade in Assassin's Creed], nunchakus [not a fan, personally], the "sai" [very speedy and very nice... ;) ], kama [not a fan], and the claw mentioned above may be labeled here.)
5. They are stealthy and fast, (though they are good enough to not need the stealth part) making their attacks quickly and swiftly over with. (I really dislike the movies that make them look so horrible. The Last Samurai comes to mind.)
6. Playing off #5, if someone comes out of nowhere, why do we call them ninjas? It is a cool feeling, right? (Like, "Whoa, how did you get there, you're a ninja!")
7. Very sleek, light-weight, and black suits that cover all but the eyes and hands. (My uncle let me put his on; it has pockets and things inside for shuriken and kunai. Though real ninjas wore regular (commoner) clothing, this suit is even cooler.)

1. Thy are good fighters and assassins. There is no historical account of them being athletic or acrobatic.
2. Essentially a mix of Asian arts.
3. Most weren't very effective, and failed to defeat a well-trained samurai.
4. See above.
5. Why are they stealthy? They are cowardly assassins. Why are they assassins? They are mercenaries. The ninjas never came from an honor guard. People with particular skills were recruited by lords to assassinate other lords because their samurai had the smallest grip of honor and would never do such a dishonorable and cowardly thing.
6. ^{[citation needed]}
7. They never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER, wore all black suits as explained by you. They never did. Ever. They wore a mix of armor that the samurai wore, with a head cover, and common sandals.

The ninjas were mercenaries, with impractical weaponry. They consisted of peasants with cheap parlor tricks, and could never ever, defeat a true warrior in a 1 on 1 true fight. The ninjas had no code whatsoever. The samurai had bushidō. Medieval knights had the chivalric code. Ninjas had nothing. When they were spotted they were fled. They are also very over-exaggerated. Much of the skills you stated are by products of movies, and not actual sources. IE, Naruto and the sort.

The ninjas were only around for 200 years, samurai lasted about from the 13th century to the late 19th century. This shows that ninjas were flawed.


Edit: Also, THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED CASE OF WORK OF ANY NINJA EVER IN THE ENTIRE COURSE OF HISTORY. EVER. THERE IS NOT EVEN A REAL DOCUMENTED NINJA EVER IN THE COURSE OF MAN KIND. There could've been no ninjas at all, which is very probable.

[Grayfox]

Go Kestral! Media enhancement!

[Teinaava]

I don't think ninjas are that great. They're just assassins and there's been thousands of assassins. They're just the most famous due to the amount of movies that have been made about them.

[The Ninja]

-stuff-

Edit: Also, THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED CASE OF WORK OF ANY NINJA EVER IN THE ENTIRE COURSE OF HISTORY. EVER. THERE IS NOT EVEN A REAL DOCUMENTED NINJA EVER IN THE COURSE OF MAN KIND. There could've been no ninjas at all, which is very probable.

For most of the text, I'm talking about the modern vision ninja. Not the origin of them. And most of that is false. The ninja's weapons were made for every situation to be effective against the samurai. And being stealthy makes for an easier kill, so says logic and experience of Videogaming. It isn't cowardly. Today's ninjas have black suits that are FREAKING awesome. My uncle (you should know who he is) has one and says that, though they didn't origionally wear them, they are idel for that type of work. And as for the last part, that is how good the ninjas were. No one even knew who killed all those poor samurai, etc. The ninjas were so great that no event of them killing was ever recorded.

PS: Please don't make this any sort of flaming debate. It is just for good conversation.

[Kestral]

That's impossible.

We knew the Hashshashin and knew every single assassin in the history of man kind that killed any figure. Lee Harvey Oswald, Gavrilo Princip, John Wilkes Booth, and many more. It's just impossible for the ninjas to have last for about 200 hundred years and not have at least have been attributed to one death. I mean, if you see someone's eyes filled with glass and you knew the basic folklore of the area, anyone would attribute it to a ninja.

You have a very warped and hyped view of a ninja. This is shown by your preference of the black suit, and not the traditional, so you arne't using much historical background to this. They were just mercenary peasants, who can't even beat an enemy their a millenium ahead of.

There are no ninjas today, it's an extinct trade. I don't care if their from Japan, were taught in Japan, and know every supposed trick the ninja up their sleave, they aren't ninjas.

You also have yet to point ONE target. Don't give me that "The ninjas were so great that no event of them killing was ever recorded" nonsense, because that doesn't cut it. You don't go out in court saying the defendant is guilty saying "The reason why there is no evidence of Mr Jameson's death is because Mr Callahan is so unbelievably good." Until you show one case of someone being killed by a ninja and not avoiding most of the argument presented to you, you have nothing.

[Grayfox]

Ninja, you are contradicting yourself.

You said, they were stabbed in the back by the emporer, but they were equipped to kill the samurai.

And, video game experience? That doesn't mean junk.

[The Ninja]

That's impossible.

Says you...

You have a very warped and hyped view of a ninja. This is shown by your preference of the black suit, and not the traditional, so you arne't using much historical background to this. They were just mercenary peasants, who can't even beat an enemy their a millenium ahead of.

Okay, you are right by saying that the first ninjas did not wear black suits, but they WERE adopted by the ninja in later years for more stealth etc. Ninjas DID wear them, but not the first ninjas. And I will give in to a little "merc" history. They were mercs ONLY TO AN EXTENT. They follow the "Way of the Warrior," called "Bushidō." It served as a sort of "code" to them and guidlines for which jobs to hire themselves out.

There are no ninjas today, it's an extinct trade. I don't care if their from Japan, were taught in Japan, and know every supposed trick the ninja up their sleave, they aren't ninjas.

No one is certain that there are no ninjas. Might I remind you of a certain video I have posted in this thread earlier?

The last living heir to ninjas (supposively).

Until you show one case of someone being killed by a ninja and not avoiding most of the argument presented to you, you have nothing.

The only evidence needed for me to know htat they have killed at least ONE person is that they WERE assasins. At least one of them has killed sombody. It is logical.

You said, they were stabbed in the back by the emporer, but they were equipped to kill the samurai.

What is so contradicting about it? They were created to defeat the samurai and had a weapon for almost ANY situation against them.

And, video game experience? That doesn't mean junk.

Hey, it's better than saying, "I know from actual experiance that being stealthy results in an easier kill." Would you rather have me say that?

[Ashk. Ashina Zelaku]

Okay, you are right by saying that the first ninjas did not wear black suits, but they WERE adopted by the ninja in later years for more stealth etc. Ninjas DID wear them, but not the first ninjas. And I will give in to a little "merc" history. They were mercs ONLY TO AN EXTENT. They follow the "Way of the Warrior," called "Bushidō." It served as a sort of "code" to them and guidlines for which jobs to hire themselves out.

They simply didn't wear them. It's like people who claim 'Highlanders did wear kilts, just later ones.' No, we didn't invent them, we didn't wear them, and they are not important. Just fantasy. Like whatever the next best-selling anime will have its supposedly traditional ninjas wear.

And only ninja trainers, if they could have been called that, had any code. The others wanted money and would do anything to get it, and they weren't intelligent enough to realise that the equipment they were given was just cheap, decorative items that could not be used in close combat.

The last living heir to ninjas

They were not a hereditary professional group. Other mercenaries, such as the gallowglasses, were, but the ninjas definately were not. The politics of Japan changed quickly; as soon as ninjas came in, they could be irrelevant. As soon as you sent one on a mission, he'd probably not have been needed. To suppose that they would have trained their heirs in the same profession when there was no indication that such skills would have been any use is to insult the way Japan's modern government has arisen.

The only evidence needed for me to know htat they have killed at least ONE person is that they WERE assasins. At least one of them has killed sombody. It is logical.

It would be logical only if we knew that ninjas existed, which they may not have done. If it was proven that they existed, we'd know that they'd killed someone.

What is so contradicting about it? They were created to defeat the samurai and had a weapon for almost ANY situation against them.

Farming tools would have been no use against the samurai, and neither would the amazingly modern ideas that ninjas were supposedly armed with. Please tell me what the use of a grappling hook would have been on a building with a relatively flat roof, many pillars to climb, and sliding doors? And the shuriken on a battlefield, or near a battlefield? In a camp, maybe? They are only short range weapons, and how are you going to get close to your target who is sitting around a fire with a thousand other warriors?

Hey, it's better than saying, "I know from actual experiance that being stealthy results in an easier kill." Would you rather have me say that?

The ninjas simply could not have been stealthy. If, as you claim, they had grappling hooks, shurikens, daggers, katanas, and dark suits they'd have made some noise, and would have been blatantly obvious against the white decoration in Japanese fortifications. They could not have climbed across the roofs of Japanese houses, just look at them! And they could not have gone through sliding doors quietly, either.